The Station House Hotel, Clifden at 1:00 PM.
Attendees/Delegates: Tuula Pyoria(FIN) Chair, Padraic Heanue(IRE) Treasurer, Sarah Hodgkins(BCPS), Henrietta Knight (BCPS), Andy O’Donoghue(CPBS), Dermot Power(CPBS), Henry O’Toole(CPBS), Jimmy Canavan(CPBS), Joop deJong(NE), Anne Storme(BE), Shirley Sauve(CAN), Niamh Philbin(CPBS), Olivier Verove(FR), Helena de Belloy(FR), Vermund Lyngstad(NO), Karen Holloway(AU), Madeleine Beckman(SWE), Maiken Holm(DE), and Susan McConnell(USA) (Secretariat).
Tuula Pyoria, the Chairperson for the ICCPS opened the meeting and welcomed everyone to the annual ICCPS AGM. As there were several new Delegates, everyone briefly presented himself/herself. Since this AGM was preceded by a very productive morning meeting discussing Classification and Inspection Rules (organized by the CPBS and chaired by Andy O’Donoghue), Tuula hoped that we could proceed through the Agenda, as quickly as possible.
- Apologies for absence: Austria, Germany, New Zealand, Switzerland, South Africa.
- Minutes from the last ICCPS AGM, 17 August 2010
Tuula wondered if the CPBS had written a letter to the South African Society accepting them into the ICCPS. Dermot Power said he had been in contact with people in the Society but had not finalized details. Tuula asked about a letter from the CPBS to the Australian Society. Dermot said that a letter had been sent supporting the Australian Society. The CPBS will not recognize the Australasian registry. Sarah Hodgkins asked for a Database update. There was general disappointment about theinformation as organized and presented by Alex O’Connor. Dermot said that the CPBS was hoping to have all ponies with a unique identifying number and 3 generations. He admitted that there was not much progress. Andy said there was a question about ‘who owned the Database’. Because the CPBS was not getting a response from Alex, a competitive bid was offered to create a new Database and Search Engine. John Riordan said Eamonn MacLochlainn has created new ancestry fields (where bred/born) in a new configuration. Alex is not offering to cooperate to share the data. Susan suggested that the countries could resend their pedigree information to Eamonn if Alex is not forthcoming, soon.Tuula said 1000 Euros had been paid by the ICCPS to Timmy Kreuzer and the German society for the participation to Equitana in Germany, as discussed at the 2010 meeting and confirmed after the society’s application to the ex board. She said that this is money was well spent to promote the Connemara Pony. Minutes adopted by Motion from Madeleine Beckman and seconded by Padraic Heanue
- Presentation of President’s Annual Report
Tuula Pyoria read the President’s written report to the Delegates; promised to send it via email to all the Societies, and post it on the ICCPS website.
ICCPS Publicity Report 2010-2011: Tuula read John Tennant’s report. She thanked John for his PR help from “down under”. She hopes the Societies will follow Jenny Hagenblad’s example and send regular, short reports for the web. Hopefully, Societies will have something new to tell.
CPBS: Tuula thanked Andy for the morning meeting hoping that there will be positive results. In the past, Tuula felt that the CPBS was not fully aware of the ICCPS. Now, she hopes there will be better understanding and lines of communication so we can solve problems in the future.
Tuula thanked Susan McConnell for her help during the year.
Prefix List: Tuula has been compiling prefixes. She hopes that there will be complete, worldwide list so people can see what names are not available – to avoid duplicates. She would be very happy to get the French suffixes.
Showcases: WEG and Equitana (Germany) are examples of events that showcase the Connemara Pony. Tuula suggests that the ICCPS tries to support the breed around the world.
Permanent Agenda Item: the International Rules have been discussed every year; however, everyone wants/needs one, simple set of Rules that is compatible on the same principles. Tuula feels that this morning’s meeting should be helpful – positive. There might still be problems but as much to solve.
Communication: Tuula would like to see the Societies be more active throughout the year.
Tuula wishes every success to the CPBS for show week. Hopefully, there will be sunshine so we can enjoy the beautiful ponies.
- Presentation of Treasurer’s Report Annual Accounts for 2010 and Budget for 2011 Padraic Heanue presented the Treasurer’s Report with a Balance of 5,660.46 euros as of 16/08/11.
Anne Storme presented a Budget for 2011-2012
Income: Membership Fees
130 Euros = FR, BR, IRE and USA
65 Euros = AUS, AST, BE, CAN, DE, FN, GR, ND, NZ, NO, SW, SZ, SA
Website (Satu Pitkanen) 250 Hosting Website (ActiveMedia) 165 AGM Room Rental 195 Bank Fees (approx.) 15
Website Hosting: Tuula would like to investigate a more economical web host. International Showcases (possible applications for funds):
- 1.) France ~ European Pony Championships (Fontainebleu) end of July 2012
- 2.) Horse of the Year (Olympia, UK) Dermot wants 1,000 euros for a stand with staffing. Motion by Andy and seconded by Pat Mullin Tuula looks forward to plans and proposals
- ICCPS Annual Reports
Susan McConnell thanked all the Societies for completing and circulating their information in a timely manner. Reports were previously circulated via email. Ireland promises to circulate their information.
Dermot said that after reading the reports he feels that some Societies could be very fragile. The key is greater cooperation and better communication. All Societies exist on a limited budget; limited number of foals (4, 20, 65); across the whole spectrum. Dermot feels that there should be funding available to the overseas Societies that exist on limited budgets.
Andy noted that there are 2 fully formed, licensed Societies operating in Belgium. He will contact the other Society and bring them to the table.
- Update ICCPS Annual Report Form
Dermot noted that the ICCPS Mission Statement requires the exchange of information. He would like information every 3 months about major events. He would like up to date information about ponies that are performing for promotion.
Madeleine would like the form to meet the new Classes (1, 2, and 3) as well as How many shows? How many ponies are inspected and where they end up? Mares inspected? Sport Section?
Tuula, Madeleine and Dermot plan to work on the report form so it is easy to complete with relevant information.
- Office Bearers:
Norway, Belgium and Great Britain could step down. They announced that they were available for nomination.
Andy said that he would like Dermot to serve on the ICCPS Executive Board in his place.Because there are 4 countries (NO, GB, AUST and BE) for 3 positions, there was a secret ballot. The voting result was: Norway, Great Britain and Australia for the Executive Board. Tuula Pyoria was elected Chair for the next 12 months along with the following Officers.2011-2012 ICCPS Officers:
Chair: Tuula Pyoria, FinlandVice Chair: Dermot Power, Ireland
Honorary Treasurer: Vermund Lyngstad, Norway Treasurer: Padraic Heanue, Ireland
Honorary Secretary: Sarah Hodgkins, British CPS Secretariat: Susan McConnell, USA
At Large: Madeleine Beckman, SwedenKaren Holloway, Australia
Vet Inspection ~ both colt and filly ~ clear instructions from CPBS what are the conditions that cause a pony to fail the vet. What if something is marked by the vet?
After a thorough discussion it was decided that the CPBS will contact the vet college for a list of conditions that could cause a pony to fail inspection. Henrietta Knight requested that all countries submit information, in case there are differences.
Andy talked about sweet itch. It has not been decided that it is hereditary. Although the CPBS is slow to put a pony into Class 1 with sweet itch, there is no “test”. Karen said it was a “skin condition”. Madeleine said that there were too few Connemara Pony samples sent from Ireland within the Swedish project of finding a possible gene detector for sweet itch, but the work has continued within the Icelandic Horse population and she will forward any available information to the CPBS.
John Riordan said the pony is presented and inspected on the day. The inspectors look on the day for the placing in the classes.
Tuula felt that if there is a list of conditions, then, it should be easier to handle a problem.
- Promotion of the Connemara pony ~ worldwide in the coming year
France = European Championships
UK = Horse of the Year ~ Andy said that 2012 is the 100th Anniversary of Michael O’Malley’s ride and promotion of the Connemara Pony. Madeleine agreed that something “special” should happen (possibly ponies from Europe coming to Olympia for demonstrations).
TV Program Promotion = 1⁄2 hour on Horse and Country and its sister channels in USA and Sweden.
- Meeting closure at 2:50PM.
Due to the Olympics in London in 2012, RDS has been moved to the 3rd week in August 2012. The Clifden Pony Show Week will remain as the third Thursday, 16th August 2011. No ICCPS Annual Meeting date was decided.
Motion by Dermot and seconded by Padraic Heanue for Australia to serve on the executive board.
Andy promised that he would discuss a vet evaluation form and list with the CPBS Council and/or vet/vet college and be back in touch within 2 months.
Minutes from THE ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING & TECHNICAL MEETING
Held on Tuesday, 17th August, 2010
The Station House Hotel, Clifden at 1:00 PM
Attendees/Delegates: Tuula Pyoria(FIN) (Chair), Padraic Heanue(IRE), Sarah Hodgkins(BCPS) and Henrietta Knight, Andy O’Donoghue(IRE), Dermot Power(IRE), Paddy McDonagh(IRE), John Varley(IRE), Joop deJong(NE), Anne Storme(BE), Niamh Philbin(IRE), Olivier Verove(FR), Vermund Lyngstad(NO), Karen Holloway(AU), Marynell Eyles(USA), Madeleine Beckman(SWE), Jytte Bank-Mikkelson(DE), Gabi Kappeler(SWI) and Susan McConnell(USA) (Secretariat)
Tuula Pyoria, the Chairperson for the ICCPS opened the meeting and welcomed everyone to the annual ICCPS AGM and Technical Meeting. As there were several new Delegates, everyone briefly presented himself/herself.
1. Apologies for absence
Absent without representation: Austria, Canada, Germany and New Zealand
2. Minutes from the last ICCPS Technical Meeting on 18th August 2009
Sarah Hodgkins name was inadvertently omitted from the 2009 Minutes. Minutes adopted by Motion from Marynell Eyles and seconded by Gabi Kappeler
3. Presentation of President’s Annual Report
Tuula Pyoria read the President’s written report to the Delegates and promised to send it via email to all the Societies and post it on the ICCPS website.
4. Presentation of Treasurer’s Report Annual Accounts for 2009
Padraic Heanue reported on the ICCPS bank account. Unpaid membership fees were collected from Australia, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden and USA during the meeting. Austria remains unpaid. Treasurer’s Report was adopted by a Motion from Paddy McDonagh and seconded by Madeline Beckman with a balance of Euros 6731.94
5. Collection of each ICCPS Society Annual Report (Secretary)
Susan McConnell, ICCPS Secretariat thanked all the countries who responded to the emailed request for Annual Reports. These were previously circulated. Information will be compiled in a spreadsheet and circulated. The Society Annual Report form may be reviewed and changed for 2011.
6. Declaration of Elections for Office Bearers (Finland and Sweden may step down and may be eligible for re-election)
Finland and Sweden announced that they were available for nomination.
Paddy McDonagh nominated Finland and Sweden. They were seconded by John Varley and elected to the Executive Board. Tuula Pyoria was elected Chair for the next 12 months along with the following Officers.
2010-2011 ICCPS Officers
Chair: Tuula Pyoria
Vice Chair: Andy O’Donoghue Honorary Treasurer: Anne Storme Treasurer: Padraic Heanue
Honorary Secretary: Vermund Lyngstad Secretariart: Susan McConnell
At Large: Sarah Hodgkins
TECHNICAL/GENERAL Meeting – 2:00PM
Topics for discussion as suggested by Societies:
1. South African Connemara Pony Society – request for acceptance in ICCPS
Dermot Power has been in touch with the SACPS since 2009 and, this weekend, talked with Brenda Van Schie and Sally Young. He proposes that SACPS be accepted.
Motion: Dermot Power and second by Paddy McDonagh to accept the SACPS. This is good news for the South African Connemara Pony Society which has competitions and shows.
2. Australasian Connemara Pony Society – request membership to ICCPS
After lengthy discussion, it was agreed that the CPBS is the ultimate authority. Australia asked for a letter to be written from the CPBS (Ire) to inform the CPBSA (Aus) of the ACPR application to the ICCPS. This letter to the CPBSA (Aus) will acknowledge the lack of support for the application from the ACPR.
Motion: John Varley proposed and Gabi Kappeler seconded the recommendation that this request be referred to the CPBS.
3. “To Develop and Promote” and Public Relations Report 2009-2010 ~ John Tennant, ICCPS Publicity Officer
Karen Holloway read John’s reports to the meeting. John hopes to add articles to the ICCPS web site as well international magazines. This will be possible if:
- – Each Society will give approval for reprinting articles from their internal newsletters and magazines
- – Each Society will take time to research the Connemara Pony in shows, local and national events; and, pass them on.
– There is a big horse fair planned in Shanghai,China,September 24-25,2010. JohnVarley, Niamh Philbin and Anne Storme knew about this upcoming event and should research it further.
4. ICCPS Rules for Registration
Tuula Pyoria introduced this topic by saying that this group has discussed the Rules for Registration for ages. She has high hopes for positive progress with discussion on the main concerns that remain.
Dermot Power acknowledged that a lot of work had gone into the Rules. The old document was comprehensive and we should work towards answering questions from the countries. He wants to know if each country is under a Horse Board and do they have Performance Testing.
Finland: Tuula Pyoria said there is a ridden test for mares and stallions at the inspection at the moment. It is not as thorough performance test as in Sweden or Denmark. In Finland authorized person (not a vet) takes blood samples; does ID control, and inserts microchips. Also, an authorized person measures ponies at the inspection (not a vet). The inspectors have the possibility of sending a mare to the vet for inspection if they think something needs further checking. Stallions are vetted at the inspection. This is a national system with all breeds and also financially practical. Finland is not sure how the stallions who do not pass the visual inspection benefit the breed when allowed to Class 2 and their progeny is eligible to Class 1 according the rule draft. It is felt the rules should be there for the betterment of the breed.
Sweden: Madeleine Beckman said Sweden is aware of the “Panama Flag” effect of stallions who can travel around from country to country for inspection. Currently, the Swedish Society has to go through the Horse Board to get Inspection Rules changed to become compatible with the “Principles” (which are assessed by the Swedish Board of Agriculture and according to the CPBS Principles). Madeleine reported that the Swedish Society would like 1.) “other authorized person” to do the chip marking, ID control and DNA sampling and 2.) to make it optional for Mare Inspections to include a vet examination only when requested by the Inspectors (according to the National Swedish Inspection system for all breeds)Dermot Power pointed out that countries within the EU have to follow the Mother Society’s system; therefore a performance test could/should not be compulsory for an EU Class 1 CP Stallion.He also suggested that a Class 1 Stallion from Ireland going to Sweden should be accepted as Class 1 and then given a *star* for merit for passing the Performance Test. Madeleine answered that this was already working due to the Swedish Principles. She hoped the ICCPS Rules will be set as soon as possible to make the work with the Rules easier for the Daughter Societies. She asked Dermot if the CPBS is working on a Stallion Performance Test. He said: “no”.
Niamh Philbin said that Denmark is stricter on the ponies born inside Denmark. Jytte Bank- Mikkelsen said there is discussion about following the rules strictly or not. Dermot Power wants to meet with the licensing authority in Denmark.
Vermund Lyngstad said that he would like a clear answer to the question of Registration vs Studbook for breeding material, It appears that some are divided on this in Denmark. Netherlands: Joop de Jong said the Netherlands is similar to Finland and Denmark. There are DNA records for stallions and all foals have microchips since 1992. Progeny are chosen at random for testing. Stallions are tested under saddle. They are “happy or not” to be classified when going into Class1. Netherlands is willing to follow regulations that are democratically made at a table between the ICCPS and CPBS.
Belgium: Anne Storme said the Belgium Warmblood Society keeps the Connemara studbook in her country. There are different classes, voluntary performance testing and loose jumping. All mares and stallions have DNA on file and foals are tested at random. Belgium supports rules that improve the breed. All breed stock is inspected.
France: Olivier Verove said that in France the classifications are organized and judged by judges from the Association de Poney Connemara (AFPC). The rules for classification are identical to the Irish rules with the exception that it is not obligatory for both or either of the parents to have been classified for their progeny to be presented for classification. The Connemara population in France is too small to make this restriction; however, all mares that had already been bred prior to 2006 were systematically put into Class 1. Since 2007, all the ponies classified have had their Passports stamped. The AFPC has recently asked the information service of the National Stud (HN) to allow this information to go public. In following the Irish judging system for mares, France finds the system too “lax” allowing 97% of the mares to go into Class 1. This situation is not viable in the long term and is not a positive measure for improving the Connemara breed. The AFPC has a group working on a breeding program that will allow each pony to have a “label” indicating its specific, such as: bone, movement, grading type, jumping abilities, character. Once drafted, a copy will be sent to the ICCPS. France would like to see the minimum age for classification for fillies and colts to be raised to 3 years old.
Gabi Kappeler wondered if it would be possible to get the Stud Book information through the President’s office? Gabi is welcome to have Stud Book information directly from the AFPC President’s office.
Australia: Karen Holloway reported that there is no governing Horse Board; there is a 3 tier classification system; no Performance Test; compulsory vet; chip or freeze brand (choice); raised (increased) the pass mark for Mares to 70% passing for Mares and 75% passing for Stallions; overseas stallions go straight in with their Inspection class. Australians would like to highlight the correctness of the term “dun” when actually “buckskin” is the correct term. There was consensus within the ICCPS to use the term “buckskin. Karen would like the CPBS to be informed of this issue and give direction to all. John Varley said that he would like to see it put “correctly”.
ACPS (American): Marynell Eyles reported that every foal has DNA information on file; inspection is voluntary for mares, stallions and geldings; non-EU; cannot use 15 digit number; do not require microchip or brand; vet forms for mares and stallions are completed prior to inspection. She noted that the ACPS rules allow for only 1 (one) embryo transfer per year instead of the new rules of 3 (three) per year.
Gabi Kappeler noted Inspection rule 2.4 (foals at foot).
Great Britain: Sarah Hodgkins reported that her Society keeps its own studbook; no horse board; no performance test; mare owners are required to have a vet complete a form prior to inspection or the mare is not registered until done; objects to vet for official markings – only vet used for DNA/blood (page 4 art 2.64)
Andy O’Donoghue said there were things that have to change (1.5 EU) by EU legislation, the CPBS will have to with the Competent Authority, Horse Board, Breed Society or Studbook (FR). In Ireland, the CPBS has a 5 year license and EU countries are therefore obliged to follow our Principles. It appears that some things are not working well – some like it, some not (more not like it). He made a Proposal: in conjunction with Ireland’s own Competent Authority; talk to the EU Commission and each countries Competent Authority so that all will be working together and approved under the EU authority. He said that this would be a “guinea pig”, but there would be no more questions. He wants to move “as a group so there are no more questions and differences” He saw no point in making things more complicated.
Tuula Pyoria stated that the Societies have gone through their problems with the Draft Rules. She suggests we give these suggestions to the CPBS Council and its International Committee for review to come back to the ICCPS, soon.
Dermot Power agreed to take the suggestions to the CPBS Council and produce a 3rd Draft by the 1st of November, 2010
5. Database Update from CPBS
Alex O’Connor reported that he has received pedigree information but has had language problems and the pedigrees on the web are neither complete nor linked. He promised the pedigrees should be linked in 5-6 weeks; each Society will be able to upload their own updates; there will be a “feedback form” on the website for questions, suggestions or problems. Currently, the pedigrees from some countries show only one generation although more information has been provided by Societies and as such the Database is of no use to the breeders.
As it has been taking a very long time to put up the Database, Tuula urged Alex to contact the Societies that need to provide further information so the web site can be completed by the end of the year.
6. Other Matters Arising
Marynell Eyles (USA) requested guidance from the CPBS on the use of ‘words’ as prefixes and in the name of a pony. Andy O’Donoghue shared a prepared paper about the use of Prefixes and Suffixes and ‘words’ in pony’s names. Dermot promises to take this information to the CPBS Council for review and have a decision by the end of November, 2010.
Timmy Kreuzer from Connemara Pony Vereinigung e.V. of Germany had written to Tuula about ICCPS help and mabe also some financial support at Equitana (9 days, every other year event). The Delegates felt positive about this support. Dermot Power asked for Timmy Kreuzer’s email address so the CPBS can help, too. No amount was requested and there needs to be further communication.
Webmaster replacement ~ Tuula Pyoria had received, last week, an email from the current webmaster stating she is willing to give up if someone else capable and willing can be found to be the ICCPS webmaster for 200 euros per year. A new webmaster will be nominated when found.
Treasurer’s Report ~ Joop de Jong (NE) suggested that the Treasurer’s Report should in the future include a budget
Judging Connemara Ponies ~ Paddy McDonagh and Dermot Power asked that Societies go thru the CPBS Council and office when they need Irish judges for shows in their countries. Dermot would like all Societies to supply a list of their best judges.
Susan McConnell gave a brief overview of the upcoming World Equestrian Games in Lexington, KY 25th September thru 10th October, 2010. The American Connemara Pony Society will have 14 ponies over the 2 weeks featured in ridden and driven demonstrations. There will be approximately 50 volunteers helping in the ACPS booth in the “Irish Village” with Irish Draughts and Gypsy Colored Horses.
Olivier Verove announced that the French National Connemara Pony Show was moving from Poitiers to Pompadour, this year.
7. Adjournment 5:30PM
Next AGM for the ICCPS will be Tuesday, 16th August, 2011 in Clifden, Co. Galway, Ireland
27 October 2010
Minutes from THE ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING & TECHNICAL MEETING Held on Tuesday, 18th August, 2009
The Station House Hotel, Clifden at 9:00 AM.
Attendees/Delegates: Tuula Pyoria(FIN), Padraic Heanue(IRE), Tom Maclochlain(IRE), Anne Harries(BCPS and NZ), Andy O’Donohue(IRE), Dermot Power(IRE), Joop deJong(NE), Teresa Dohms(GER), Anne Storme(BE), Mary Flynn(CAN), Niamh Philbin(IRE), John Riordan(IRE), Gabriel Murphy(IRE), Alain Debilly(FR), Laurence DuJardin(FR), Vermund Lyngstad(NO), John Dawkins(AU), Karen Holloway(AU), Sally Oxnard(USA), Madeleine Beckman(SWE), Lene Nielsen(DE), and Susan McConnell(USA)
1. Apologies for absence
Absent without representation: Austria and Switzerland
2. Minutes from the last ICCPS Technical Meeting on 20th August 2008
Minutes adopted by Motion from Tom MacLochlainn and seconded by Padraic Heanue
3. Presentation of President’s Annual Report
Tuula Pyoria, ICCPS President welcomed everyone to the Annual ICCPS Meeting & Technical Meeting. She read her written report to the Delegates.
4. Presentation of Treasurer’s Report Annual Accounts for 2008
Padraic Heanue reported on the ICCPS bank account. Treasurer’s Report was adopted by a Motion from Lene Nielson and seconded by Andrew O’Donohue with a balance of Euros 5,760.39
5. Collection of each ICCPS Society Annual Report (Secretary)
Susan McConnell, ICCPS Secretariat thanked all the countries who responded to the emailed request for Annual Reports. These were previously circulated. Information was compiled for an new table (excel spreadsheet) of information (see attached)
6. Declaration of Elections for Office Bearers (USA, UK & Denmark step down and may be eligible for re-election)
Anne Harries noted that the correct name should be Great Britain, not UK. Great Britain will continue. Sarah Hodgkins will replace Anne Harries.
Lene Nielsen said Denmark had served for 6 years. She recommended that Denmark step down and nominated Belgium who will be represented by Anne Storme. Padraic Heanue seconded this nomination.
Sally Oxnard said the USA would step down. Madeleine Beckman suggested that a “non-EU country” should replace the USA. Norway was nominated by Sarah Hodgkins and seconded by Lene Nielsen. Vermund Lyngstad will represent Norway.
Tom MacLochlainn wished to step down from the Executive Board and was replaced by Andy O’Donohue.
Lene Nielsen nominated Tuula Pyoria as Chair. Sara Hodgkins seconded this. Tuula thanked everyone for their continuing trust.
2009-2010 ICCPS Officers
Chair: Tuula Pyoria
Vice Chair: Andy O’Donohue
Station House Hotel, Clifden, Co. Galway, Ireland
Tuula Pyoria (Finland), Chair, called the Technical/General Meeting of the ICCPS to order at 9:10AM in the Station House Hotel, Clifden, Co. Galway, Ireland. The following Delegates/Representatives attended: Sue Clarke (Australia), John Dawkins (Australia), Andrea Hochfellner (Austria), Chris Dockx (Belgium), Sarah Hodgkins (British CPS), Jennifer Smyth (Canada), Lene Nielsen (Denmark), Tuula Pyoria (Finland), Alain Debilly (France), Dermot Power (Ireland), Tom MacLochlainn (Ireland), John Riordan (Ireland), Niamh Philbin (Ireland), Vermund Lyngstad (Norway), Padraic Heanue (Ireland), Treasurer, and Susan McConnell (USA), Secretariat.
Others in the room: Sandrine Lemaitre (France), Bertrand Cardeville (France), Steven Thompson (England), Ruth Rogers (Ireland – Irish Field), Sue Gillingham (England), Christine and Jean Francois Mares (France), Susanne Lehmann (Germany), Zita Denholm (Australia), Cassie Evceg (Australia), Janie McKee (Australia), Greta Lyngstad (Norway), Sadrine Droge (Germany), Anne Storme (Belgium), Raymond Dowling (Ireland), Karen Vicencio (Ireland/USA)
Call to Order and Welcome: Tuula Pyoria welcomed everyone to the second meeting in the 1oth year of the International Committee of Connemara Pony Societies. Since we have had one meeting, already this year, Tuula wishes to have a short, efficient meeting with clear conclusions. John Tennant is in the “background” since he sent an email to the CPBS office, wishing us good luck with our meeting.
Apologies of Absence from: Germany, Netherlands, New Zealand, Sweden, and Switzerland.
Adoption of Minutes: The Minutes from the March 2008 Annual General Meeting and Technical/General Meeting were previously circulated via email. Dermot suggested that the Minutes for the 2008 AGM be adopted at the AGM in 2009 and the Minutes from the Technical/General Meeting accepted, now. Corrections were made to the March 2008 Meeting: Add names in attendance – Sarah Hodgkins and Niamh Philbin
Tuula asked everyone to please double check these details when the Minutes are circulated and email Susan, as Secretariat, the corrections as soon as possible rather than wait to the next meeting
John Tennant has asked for a compilation of the ICCPS Annual Reports
Niamh admitted that the CPBS has not submitted an Annual Report for 2008.
Susan will make a compilation of all the ICCPS Annual Reports.
• Motion: A motion was made by Lene Nielsen (Denmark) and seconded by Sarah
Hodgkins (British) to approve the Minutes. The motion passed.
President’s Report: Tuula had previously circulated her report via email, including thoughts from the March 2008 meeting.
Vermund agreed with the third paragraph suggesting that the ICCPS Executive Board should review the ICCPS Rules for Registration during the Fall and Winter.
Tuula said that Item#10 on this Agenda would request permission for the review of the Rules.
Tuula noted that the Internet was a powerful means of communicating. The ICCPS web site needs to be updated with accurate information; encouraging more visitors. She does not feel this is too difficult and wondered if someone had interest in it?
Treasurer’s Report: Padraic Heanue reported that the account balance as of 20 August is Euros 5,933.29. All countries have paid. The expenses are: paying for the meeting room, and Susanne Lehmann’s Euros 800 for the DVD.
Colt Inspections – esp. Veterinary Examination (British CPS) Vet certificate to cover all ICCPS Societies? (Madeleine Beckman): Tuula thanked Madeleine Beckman (Sweden) and Phillip McManus (Ireland) for their efforts to create a standardized form. A new version of the Veterinary Stallion Assessment was circulated at the meeting to all Delegates.
John Riordan asked if stallions were given a fertility test.
Tuula said that no country tests fertility; however she knew of one case in a Scandinavian country where a stallion had one small testicle so he was given permission to breed for one year. In her opinion, a fertility test is not mandatory, but it is possible to send a stallion for testing. In Finland the breeders must record every covering, not just with the certificate to the mare owner but also report every covered mare to Finland’s Hippos (horse board).A stallion can have good and bad years. A low rate in one year may be bad luck.
Lene said her country has similar reporting.
Tuula said that there are records for % of mares in foal and the number of live births, with every mare in foal being counted. Mare owners read the records and are very careful to not use a stallion with low fertility. Jennifer (Canada) said that cataracts are congenital. “cataracts can be congenital or acquired due to injury or disease. She inquired if an animal would be failed due to cataracts from any cause? The reply was that the examining vet should be supplied with records from the attending veterinarian outlining treatment of an injury that led to cataract formation, and that this documentation would be taken into account by the examining vet. Therefore it was very important that all documentation be retained in such cases.”
Tuula wants this form to be adopted in principle so the information follows a stallion when it changes ownership or moves to another country.
Susanne Lehmann asked if a mare would be passed if she had 3 legs, but a vet certificate?
Tuula said that it should be understood “why”? Accident or congenital? If a stallion is being failed due to a cataract, a veterinary certificate from the injury is needed.
Lene said that she had not heard of some of the diseases listed. Are there problems in other countries? She asked if ponies are failed for these things.
Sarah said that since they check for these problems, there are no problems. The ponies are basically sound. Chris (Belgium) said that flexion tests do not cover everything. Flexion tests can get certain, but limited information. There are no guarantees.
Lene said “ringbone” is a problem that comes on later and cannot be seen in a young pony.
Susanne asked that if a 3 year old has 2 illnesses that he does not go through?
Tuula said that if they were inheritable diseases that the stallion would not be approved.
Chris wondered what “abnormal” meant?
Lene said that in Denmark, if there is an unsoundness at the walk or trot, the Inspectors see it, first. Maybe there is a conformation weakness.
Dermot said that there is different methodology of assessment in every country. Do we need to update? Tuula said that this Veterinary Assessment is a minimum. This form is to follow a stallion if he changes country.
Chris said that sweet itch can develop at an older age. Just because a young stallion does not have sweet itch does not mean that he will not develop it. If the goal is to rule out sweet itch, then, inspect the stallion at a later age. Also, a stallion can be treated for sweet itch, or it can be a certain time of the year.
Tuula agreed that you cannot tell about sweet itch if there is an inspection in March/April. This form assures that the stallion does not have sweet itch or has not had an operation on his patella. We have to rely on the honesty of the stallion owner.
There was a discussion about movement – shoes or no shoe? The New Forest Pony is inspected without shoes to see more things.
Tuula felt that it would be hard require a pony to be tested without shoes. She said that it would be impossible to remove shoes for Inspection due to the ice in Finland.
Andrea (Austria) said that stallions are inspected without shoes.
Karen V. said that it would not be fair to require shoes to be put on or have them taken off.
Australia said that it has hard ground.
Vermund proposed the addition of a line in the assessment “not shod or shod”. He said that to be more precise, that this form should be written in Latin, so all could understand it.
Philip MacManus liked the newest version. He said that “noise” was the sound from standard inhalant. A “roar” or whisper is due to 1⁄2 the larynx being malformed. This is genetic and can be passed on. Stallions should be pulled at Inspection.
Chris said that this will impact performance and wondered how many carry this problem?
Phillip said 5-10% were passed with this problem. Some mares have teeth abnormalities that are not noted on paper.
Chris said this needs to be on paper!
Tuula wanted to know if the Delegates could say in principle that we could adopt this Veterinary Stallion Assessment document?
• Motion: :
A motion was made by Sarah Hodgkins (British CPS)) and seconded by Chris
Dockx(Belgium) to accept this Veterinary Stallion Assessment.The motion passed.
Discussion of clinics for future development of Inspectors and Judges – discussed in Minutes 2007, page 4 (Norway): Vermund said that the March 2008 clinic was very useful since it
focused on the “international standard” so that everyone can train and work together for the same things – type, bone, movement. He had the experience that other pony breeds can be different from country to country. With clinics, we can work to have the same opinion about the same “ideal” pony. The March experience was very good and useful. In Norway, Inspection Judges come from other countries. They have worked well, together. We need to agree about the standard.
Tuula said that it is not easy to send people to Ireland. She suggested that when a country had a breed show, the visiting judge should be asked to speak the following day. It is a good way for the membership to listen and learn at a low cost since the Judge is already there. Tom Maclochlainn visited, last year, and Lib Petch will visit, this year. It is impossible to send 20 people over, sometimes 1 or 2. It is Tuula’s dream to have all Finnish Inspectors/Judges to visit Ireland. There are 3 left to visit!
Jennifer reported briefly on Phillip Scott’s recent visit to Canada, and suggested that other Connemara Societies trying to fund visits from Irish inspectors or judges might consider contacting Irish Draught groups in their own countries in case they could combine events and split the expense of flying judges/inspectors over from Ireland.
Sarah said that there would be a Judges Day in England on Saturday, the 18th of October at Moreton Morrell not far from Birmingham Airport. She promised to circulate an invitation.
Dermot said that he had hoped to have 2 senior Judges to go to Europe to give a clinic rather than have people come to Ireland.
To this Tuula commented that FCPS will celebrate its 25th Anniversary and this might be something to think about when deciding where to arrange the clinic. She said that FCPS would need the assistance of horse board and she would find out by the end of the year if it would be possible to arrange it in Finland. The best time would be late May or beginning of June.
Lene wanted an updated CPBS Judges/Inspectors list.
Niamh promises to provide a current list of CPBS Judges/Inspectors.
Dermot said that we should plan a Spring Festival in Finland (April, late May or June). He said it could be provisional in hopes that more people would attend.
Susanne said that other countries should know that this is in the planning stage. Circulate the information, now, rather than wait to the last minute. With preparation, people from all over the world would attend. Dermot felt that a Clinic in Finland could be very positive. There could be education and understanding. Tuula said that she would know by the end of the year.
Andrea said that Padraic Hynes was in Austria two years ago for a clinic, and Henry O’Toole is coming to Austria for a clinic, the last weekend in October.
Jennifer commented what a wonderful idea it was for the Australian Connemara Society to send some young inspectors over to Ireland for the Clifden week in order to see the ponies in their native environment, and would it be possible to set up a bursary fund to assist applicants from other countries with airfare costs to come to Ireland in the future?
Dermot noted that there was money in the ICCPS bank account that could be used for flight fare. If the goal of the ICCPS is to promote the Connemara Pony, maybe the money can be used?
Tuula said that the ICCPS Executive Board would discuss this and develop some guidelines.
Vermund hoped that a list of open clinics could be circulated. This would be a major step forward. He would like to see a written description and good characteristics in figures. More countries are going this way. We can do this through the ICCPS. It is most important to train Judges/Inspectors, together.
Dermot reminded the ICCPS members that the ICCPS Mission Statement states:
- To develop, promote and preserve the Connemara pony as a distinctive breed, internationally.
- To provide a forum for the exchange of knowledge and information between member societies andbreeders.
- To co-ordinate an international breeding improvement program for Connemara Ponies.
Dermot suggested that each Society should contact its national equine organization board for funds available for yearly Judges/Inspectors. They should ask to be sent to the Stud Book of origin (Ireland).
John Dawkins said that Tom MacLochlainn conducted half day seminars in every state with groups of ponies, owners and breeders. At Tom’s suggestion, a group of Australian Inspectors (4) have come to Ireland. The Australian Society has decided to have an International visitor, once a year. A memorandum of understanding has been agreed with a University. The Australian Society plans to build association between groups by having once a year “classifiers day” for uniformity. Breeders and Inspectors will be spread over the country to reinforce the Connemara breed standards. He wanted to express his thanks to Dermot, Tom MacLochlainn and the CPBS Council for their support.
Tuula said that we all agree that this topic is very close to our hearts. Judges/Inspectors have a big job. There may be differences, but we are getting closer.
AI availability worldwide – development of annual list of stallions from frozen semen (Susan, Secretary): Susan researched the procedure and costs of freezing semen for use – worldwide. The use of frozen semen within a country (or EU) is not as complicated as the rules and procedures to ship frozen semen to Australia and/New Zealand. Basically, the cost of freezing semen in each country is the same. The stallion must be collected in an authorized facility, under approved conditions. If a stallion owner plans to ship frozen semen to Australia and/or New Zealand, the stallion must be in quarantine in an approved facility for 30 days prior to the collection and freezing process. Unless the stallion has been in quarantine and passed health tests, his frozen semen will not be accepted. So, if a mare owner from Australia and/or New Zealand is thinking of breeding to a stallion with frozen semen, the mare owner should double check the conditions during collection.
This research is a reality check. The breeding of mares using frozen semen is a “chicken and an egg”. What stallions are needed for the preservation of the gene pool? Who will use the frozen semen, if a stallion owner is thinking about going to the expense of 30 days of quarantine? What genes are needed in Australia and New Zealand? Will stallion owners be approached by mare owners?
Sarah has experience with frozen semen and passing the health tests with her stallion, Spinway Comet. She has sold semen to NZ as a long term investment. There have been good vets, there, with good results. The 4 mares that were bred produced 3 foals – one of which was imported into Ireland!
Ruth Rogers suggested that the Connemara breeders share stallions from Northern to Southern hemisphere like the Thoroughbreds.
Sue Gillingham said that she has 15 doses going to Australia and NZ from her stallion, Gentle Cascade by Laerkens Cascade Dawn
Tuula said that the effort is there. It is the cost that is the problem. It is hard to charge a stud fee to cover the real cost.
Sarah suggested that the stallion owner have a very good contract with the mare owner when you send the frozen semen. If the semen is sent to an “Agent”, there is more control and safe guards about the use of the semen.
Sue said that the service certificate from the stallion owner is another safeguard. If the mare owner does not have the proper stallion certificate the foal should not be registered.
Niamh said that the Irish stallion Silver Shadow has frozen semen.
Tuula said that all Delegates should re-check the information about stallions who offer frozen semen in their country.
It would be good to get
Sue Clarke asked that there be
Prefix Registration – usage to prevent duplication (Ireland): Niamh said that the CPBS Prefix form was previously circulated via email. The CPBS is no longer affiliated with the CPR (Central Prefix Registry in England). Advise from the Department of Agriculture was that the CPBS should register prefixes. Niamh has spoken to the CPR to find that not all Societies are affiliated with the CPR.
Jennifer said that Canada is similar to some other Societies in that they have a registry already in existence. “Jennifer commented on previous experience with Central Prefix Register while employed with the Welsh Pony & Cob Society in Wales during the advent of the WP&CS International Register, which revealed conflicts when ponies already registered in Canada applied for the International Register ie. ponies who had duplicated prefixes or protected words in their Canadian prefix that were not acceptable according to the CPR list. How would this pre-existing prefix problem be handled with International Connemara registrations?
Niamh said that she had spoken to Tuula and Susan, the day before, and there could be a country code following prefixes that appear as duplicates. But, she hoped that the Societies would have a list and communicate with each other to prevent duplication. Some famous names (Village, Leam and Ashfield) have been repeated.
Susan said that each Societies secretary/registrar should make every effort to know prefix names before registering a new prefix on a foal/pony.
Niamh said we cannot change what has happened, but if every breed registrar could report the prefixes to a database, fewer errors would happen.
Christine said that France does not have prefixes, but uses suffixes, instead.
Tuula said that a new owner should not “add a suffix or prefix” to an existing name. A breeder should use common sense and not use a world famous name. Registered prefixes or suffixes cannot be bought or sold and should not be used by anyone but the person who registered it.
Niamh said that the name “Sparrow” and “Misty” are registered names; therefore, they should not be used. The CPBS Council will need to look at this, again.
Christine said that if this is a worldwide decision, then, it should be in the Stud Book.
Tuula said that if the CPBS rules work well for Ireland, that is fine. The Societies will agree to not use prefixes that are registered, but maybe the CPBS can look at the use of “common words” (Heather, Scarlet, etc). Words such as “Sparrow” follow a certain breeding line and should be allowed to continue. There
a list of the stallions in France.
a list posted on the ICCPS web site
should be permission to use words, if they are in the line. Without rethinking the rules, we will run out of useable names!
John Riordan has the “Lishmar” prefix and felt that there should not be a problem of having a pony named “Lishmar Sparrow” or “Lishmar Heather”.
Lene wondered if Alex O’Connor could receive the names. Dermot wondered of the Databases were compatible.
Lene asked that all prefixes and all suffixes be sent to Susan.
ICCPS AGM – discussion to choose date and time for 2009 AGM, including Officer Elections (Tuula, President): Tuula said that there had been a trial run for one year of changing the date/time of year for the ICCPS AGM.
Sue Clarke said that August (Pony Show Week) was better for those who come from the farthest distance. Others agreed.
Tuula said that it was difficult to come two times a year. Most people come in August. If a separate Technical Meeting is needed, it can be scheduled in March.
Vermund liked the August meeting on Wednesday rather than Tuesday.
Niamh said that the CPBS tried to put programs in place. Tuesday was for the ICCPS meeting in the morning, clinic in the afternoon, and International Reception at the Abbey Glen Hotel in the evening. Wednesday focused on Performance Demonstrations. Each day has a focus: Monday/Education at the National Park, Tuesday/International, Wednesday/Performance, Thursday/Show, and Friday/Mart. Dermot and Niamh need to be in the CPBS office on Wednesday, the day before the show, rather than in this ICCPS meeting.
John Riordan said that the CPBS Council will continue to have more spring events, but the ICCPS AGM is better during Show Week, on Tuesday.
Tuula said that the ICCPS Delegates should accommodate our hosts by having the AGM on Tuesday of Show Week starting in 2009.
ICCPS Rules – review to be led by the Exec. Officers in the coming winter for proposal at ICCPS AGM 2009 (Tuula, President): Tuula said that the Rules of Registration, as posted on the ICCPS web site, are not up to date. She does not want to take everyone’s time by talking about them, now. She asks the Delegates for permission for the Executive Board to review the Rules this Fall/Winter for a proposal for the next AGM. We will share our thoughts and opinions via email. The goal is to make the Rules as simple and straight forward as possible; not complicated; able to be posted in the web.
Database Update (Ireland): Dermot said that he was very happy that the CPBS pedigree database information was posted in the CPBS web site. All Societies should send their pedigree information to Alex O’Connor, in compatible form. In France, Deidre Feeley needed permission from the French National Stud to get their information. It is up to each Society to get this up and running. Updates need to be sent to Alex. Susan offered to communicate with Alex and the Societies to complete the pedigree database.
Other matters arising:
- Maria Sunquist, PhD, Sweden: Sweet Itch
- Susanne Lehmann, photographer, Germany: photos from European Jumping Championships
- Anne Storme (Belgium) questioned Mare Inspection. She suggested that Mare Inspection should be similar to Stallion Inspection with Classes in the Stud Book. Chris Dockx asked if there was anything on paper or marks in the Passport that tell about a mare’s assessment? Niamh said that is a mare fails the visual inspection, she is Class 2. if she fails the vet inspection, she is Class 3.
- Motion:Adjournment – meeting closure at 12:30
International Committee of Connemara Pony Societies Annual Meeting & Technical/General Meeting
27 March, 2008
Station House Hotel, Clifden, Co. Galway, Ireland
Dermot Power, sitting in for John Tennant (Australia), Chair, called the Annual Meeting of the ICCPS to order at 9:10AM in the Station House Hotel, Clifden, Co. Galway, Ireland. The following Delegates/Representatives attended: Sue Clarke (Australia), Andrea Hochfellner (Austria), Anne Storme (Belgium), Anne Harries (British CPS and New Zealand), Chris Knox (Canada), Lene Nielsen (Denmark), Tuula Pyoria (Finland), Joop de Jong (Holland), Tom MacLochlainn (Ireland), Vermund Lyngstad (Norway), Madeleine Beckman (Sweden), Gabriele Kappeler (Switzerland), Chris Knox (USA), Padraic Heanue (Ireland), Treasurer, and Susan McConnell (USA), Secretariat.
Others in the room: Cherry Caddy (BCPS), Jackie Webb (BCPS), Christine Mares (France), Susanne Lehmann (Germany), Oda Muench (Switzerland), Lotta Sjoberg (Sweden), Ragnhild Aaboe (Norway), Seamus Hynes (Ireland), Kathy Lucas (USA), Brenda Kiniyalocts (USA), Joan Webster (USA), Karen Vicencio (Ireland/USA), Marynell Eyles (USA)
Call to Order and Welcome: Since the ICCPS Chair, John Tennant, could not come to Ireland from Australia, Vice Chair, Dermot Power welcomed everyone to the 10th Annual Meeting of the International Committee of Connemara Pony Societies. Dermot spoke with John the day before. John wished everyone well. Dermot said that John was a great Ambassador of the Connemara Pony; served well as the Chair of the ICCPS; and, kept us on our toes. Unfortunately, John cannot continue to make the journey from Australia to Ireland. On behalf of all the ICCPS Societies, Dermot wanted to thank John for serving as Chair for so many years.
Dermot called on Tom MacLochlainn, President of the CPBS, to say a few words. Tom welcomed everyone to Clifden on a fine spring day. He hoped we would have as good weather for the weekend as last year. As he is retiring as President of the CPBS, Tom said that he was lucky enough to travel around the world to see Connemara Ponies, even as far away as Australia and New Zealand. He said we talked a lot about “harmonization”, but he wanted to celebrate the “differences”, too. He saw in Denmark that the Inspection system tabulates the results and reads them out as well as publishes them in the Stud Book so that it would be a learning experience. In New Zealand talk, Tom said that he saw the smallest cohort of ponies as in any country, with some exquisite ponies under 14 hands. In that culture, they cross with the TB to get the size they want, but in Ireland, they breed the “big to the big”. He stressed that we need to control height. Tom commented on the brochure that was provided from Australia. Tom hoped that the expertise from the Charles Sturt University in Wagga would be able to help the Connemara Pony. Tom noted that in America, there were Connemara Ponies in all colors – bays, browns, black, dun, roans and an odd grey! He said they are not afraid of the BEC. Tom said that every country has something to share. He felt that if we “listen and learn”, every country can make a huge contribution. Tom thanked Niamh, Carol and Emer for their tremendous work towards this weekend. And, a special thanks to John Tennant, as a friend and father figure – a colossus in the ICCPS movement.
- Apologies for Absence: Anne Harries represented the British Connemara Pony Society as well as New Zealand. Chris Knox represented the American Connemara Pony Society as well as the Canadian Connemara Pony Society. Klaus Meisner sent his apologies by Fax, due to illness. No representative from France attended the meeting.
- Adoption of Minutes from the last Annual Meeting of 14th August, 2007 (previously circulated): A motion was made by Lene Nielsen(Denmark) and seconded by Anne Harries (British) to approve the Minute. The motion passed.
- Presentation of the President’s Annual Report: Dermot Power read from the President’s Annual Report 2007-2008 that had been previously circulated. Dermot said that John wrote a very comprehensive report reflecting the past 6 years and pointing forward for the promotion of the Connemara Pony, worldwide, as well as the cooperation of the Sister Societies.Treasurer’s Report Annual Accounts for 2007-2008: Padraic Heanue circulated a list of Societies that had paid and/or not paid. He apologized for any errors, but said that there seems to be a problem with checks being posted to the account. He suggested that each Society send him an email at the same time that they send money so he can cross check. The balance as of 27th March, 2008 is 5358.74 Euros.The Annual Membership fee is 65 Euros for all Societies except the larger ones – France, Great Britain, Ireland and USA. The larger Societies pay 130 Euros, annually.
The calendar year is the fiscal year.
- Collection of each ICCPS Society Annual Report (Susan McConnell, Secretary)
Susan thanked every Society for their attention to completing their report and circulating it via email to all other Societies. Niamh promises to circulate the CPBS report, soon.
Dermot asked a general “update” question about Parentage Testing of all Connemara Ponies in all countries. Dermot plans to create a form and send it around to all Societies.
- Declaration of Elections for Office Bearers – France and Australia step down:
Lene Neilsen nominated Tuula Pyoria (Finland) and Anne Harries (Britain) seconded the nomination. Since no one had heard from Alain deBilly, no one knew whether he wished to continue.
Anne Harries nominated Madeleine Beckman (Sweden) and Sue Clarke (Australia) seconded this nomination.
Dermot Power noted that there were no further nominations so it was deemed that Finland and Sweden were elected to the executive Board
This concluded the business of the AGM and the Executive Board met to elect the ICCPS Officers:
A motion was made by Dermot Power (Ireland) and seconded by Lene Nielsen (Denmark) to accept the President’s Annual Report, as written.
A motion was made by Chris Knox (ACPS) and seconded by Lene Nielsen (Denmark) to accept the Treasurer’s Report.
Officers for 2008:
Hon. Treasurer Acting Treasurer Hon. Secretary Secretariat
Tuula Pyoria (Finland)
Tom MacLochlainn (Ireland) Chris Knox (USA)
Padraic Heanue (Ireland) Lene Nielsen (Denmark) Susan McConnell (USA)
Anne Harries (Britain) Madeleine Beckman (Sweden)
• Presentation of Gifts of Appreciation for John Tennant, past Chair for ICCPS
- Tom MacLochlainn presented a large oil painting of John’s favorite Connemara stallion to Sue Clarke to carry back to Australia as a token of appreciation for his years of service to the ConnemaraPony. All the Societies expressed their gratitude for John’s dedication.
- Susan presented an award certificate which was signed by the ICCPS Delegates in the meeting. Thecertificate read: In recognition of valuable contributions, steadfast loyalty, valiant, patient leadership, perseverance, endurance, and years of unselfish service to the Connemara Pony – worldwide.
- Sue Clarke spoke about the partnership between C.S.U. at Wagga and the Australian Connemara Pony Society. She distributed the leaflet “Working Together” and told the meeting that the launch had been on St. Patrick’s Day by the Irish Minister for transport who was visiting Australia. The Connemaras at CSU will be ideal for the veterinary students. Sue said that the ACPS would hold one meeting each year at CSU. Bill Concannon has donated a three year old filly. Tom MacLochlainn presented Sue with a box of books, including stud books, etc. which were a gift to the library at CSU from the CPBS.
• AI availability worldwide – development of annual list of stallions from frozen semen Tom said that all Societies needed the option of genetic diversity. He felt that the use of frozen semen would be instrumental to all countries.
Susan had previously circulated the stallion information provided by Sweden, Netherlands and the British Connemara Pony Society. Niamh promises to provide a list of the stallions in Ireland that have frozen semen.
ICCPS TECHNICAL/ GENERAL MEETING – convened at 10:45
The newly elected ICCPS Chair, Tuula Pyoria opens the meeting by thanking everyone for their confidence in her leadership. She said that she may not be as good as John Tennant, but she wanted everyone to remember why we are here – for the love of the Connemara Pony.
• New Rules for ICCPS Groups – status of development – CPBS/Dermot to respond to situation raised in ICCPS Minutes 2006, page 4
In reference to the Rules discussed in 2006 (seen below): Class #1 – Colts/Fillies minimum age of 2 years
- Under 148 but over 128
- Pass visual
- Pass veterinary
Class #2 – Colts/Fillies minimum age 2 years
- Over 148
- fail visual
Class #3 – All foals born – animals not presented or fail vet inspection
Lene wanted to know how she can see why a pony was in Class 3. Was it rejected at Inspection or is it born there? It might be there by fate because it has never been shown or there could be something wrong with the pony.
Tuula asked that there be a mark on the Passport so a new Society can see if it is Class 3 due to never being shown (with birth number only) or in Class 3 due to failing the vet. It is possible to fail due to type, conformation or movement. What do we do with these stallions even if they pass the vet and are in Class 2? Niamh clarified that there is a date of Inspection on a pony’s passport and the resulting class stamped into the passport. She said that if the pony’s passport is not stamped, then it has not been presented for inspection. There is now a classification page in all CPBS Passports.
Anne pointed out that only ponies inspected in or after 2006 will be in Class 3.
Niamh said that it would not be possible to go back since there would have to be a full vetting for a colt. Tuula said that it is possible to fail due to movement.
Madeleine Beckman pointed out that this topic is linked to Item #5 on the Agenda: Colt Inspections – esp. Veterinary Examination – vet certificate to cover all Societies.
Susanne Lehmann said that there is a list of “diseases” that qualifies a pony for Class 3 – example overshot jaw. They are general defects in other breeds. If the animal suffers from these, he/she will be in Class 3. Dermot said that they rely on a veterinary examination, but there are differences from country to country. Tuula said we should get a list of defects from every country.
• Database Update Presentation by Alex O’Connor
Using his laptop connected to the internet and projected onto a screen, Alex presented the database format using the CPBS Stud Book information. He said that he learned how difficult it is to calculate in the coefficient for inbreeding. It takes approximately 5,000 calculations!
Everyone is inspired by Alex’s work with the various calculations that are able to be preformed in the site, such as height of Get of Sire.
The delegates requested that there be a new column for a comment(s) or reason(s) for a Grade 2 or 3 (height, movement, etc).
Christine Mares warned that we should be careful about the sort of information that is published. She suggested that we check to see if we can publish the vet reason (liability).
Gabi said that if it is Class 2 you can see if it is due to size, color in case it is not due to height (over or under).
Dermot said that he suggested that we publish what is “positive”.
Gabi said that we can conclude the problem.
Tuula said that if a colt fails the vet, it will be in Class 3.
Sue Clarke said that we should only publish positive results.
Lene wondered why it is a secret as to “why” a colt was rejected. At the Danish AGM, people want the failed stallions in the studbook, with description and marks. Denmark has no secrets.
Tuula said that Finland is very similar – publishing similar information as Denmark.
Susanne Lehmann said that she thinks there will be server problems. There are “high restrictions” on publishing information about animals. Any Society can submit what they want, but they should be aware that it should not be negative.
Madeleine said that it is important to know if a pony was presented or not, if it is in Class 3.
Niamh repeated that if a pony has been inspected that its date and class is noted. She said the countries need to tell IF a pony has been inspected.
Tuula said that we need to think of the reasons why a pony could fail. If we want the Connemara Pony to be better, we should be open. In Finland, people want to know – even the negative. Owners want to know.
Alex said anything can be on the web through the database. He repeated that the “elephant in the room” is the Coefficient of Inbreeding. He thought it was “straight forward”, but it is not. Alex mentioned Wright’s equation for coefficient of inbreeding as well as Hardiman technique that goes back 5 generations.
Anne Storme asked about 2 ponies with the same name. These exist.
Some of the questions and thoughts were:
- private to members, only?
- public or non-public – owners/breeders
- prefix search
- phone numbers – current owner should have the ability to change the information
- password allowed until suspended
Niamh said that updating for the CPBS Stud Book is difficult. Since there are about 150/week, it is not practical to update every 3 months. It would be better for the CPBS to update more frequently.
Alex said the yearly fee would be 1,00 Euros for maintenance + VAT 21%. This fee would cover insurance, security and any need to restore it.
Christine said that it should be clarified what is in the fee.
Alex said that he would outline the service and send it via email
Chris Knox asked about the “set-up” cost.
Alex said that he had a contract for 10,000 Euros which included the VAT of 21%. He said that it would be fewer than 8,000 Euros. He felt that the CPBS information was ready and would be put online, first. There would be a link on the web site that would link to the server.
Lene thanked Alex for all of his work.
Tuula said it was a marvelous start.
• Prefix Usage- prevent duplication worldwide (CPBS)
Niamh explained that she had been advised by an official in the Irish Ministry of Agriculture that the Central Prefix Register “would not stand up”. She told the Societies that previously people had been registering their prefixes with Central Prefix Registry in the UK, but not every Society was using them. In the future, the CPBS will receive payment and will register its own prefixes. They will not allow a word which occurs in any prefix or suffix to be used in any other prefix or suffix, nor may that word form any part of a pony’s name. She was made aware that Irish prefixes are being used in other countries. She wanted each Society to email all prefixes to avoid prefix duplication.
Gabi said that names in her Connemara Society have to be approved by the C.P.R.
Niamh said that the C.P.R cannot control the names since a lot of them are not registered. She said that the CPBS will control the names and the CPBS will not allow anyone in Ireland or in a Daughter Society to duplicate a name.
Chris said that she understands the problem, but she thinks there will be difficulties when one tries to register a name and float it between all the Societies to avoid duplication. She feels that we will have to “share” some words such as “Heather”.
Niamh said that “Caillin” (Colleen) is now a prefix.
Christine said that in France, they use a suffix that is registered on a voluntary basis with the French National Stud.
Apparently, recently, the name “Sparrow” has been registered as a suffix; therefore, the female line with the Sparrow name at the end should stop.
After heated, rapid discussion and collective disbelief about the removal of words from pony’s names, Madeleine suggested that a smaller group read and discuss the procedure.
Tuula said that there are long established prefixes that should not be duplicated or used in another country, but to restrict common words will cause problems. She warned that the Connemara ponies would have “poodle names”, if the CPBS restricts common words.
Marynell Eyles said that it will be very hard to know the words that are being reserved – flowers, birds, etc. it will be hard to keep the lines of communications open to check on every name/word.
Chris said that there should be a subcommittee for registration.
Christine said that many names are protected.
Niamh said “no” unless it is registered with the CPBS.
Tuula asked: Even if it is a long established name?
Niamh said that we need to work together and keep communicating.
Sarah asked if someone can register a pony without a prefix? For example, if she bred a pony that was not a good representative of her prefix, could she register it without the Spinaway prefix
Niamh said: yes. They do not have to use their prefix.
Tuula thought that it should be used so that it cannot be ignored. Either a breeder has and uses a prefix for every animal he/she breeds or does not have a prefix.
Gabi said that it will be difficult to look up or make contact every day. She does not see the point to invent something that is already there.
Gabi said that it will be difficult to look up and check names, daily. She did not see the point of inventing something new when there is already something there.
Niamh said that she has seen prefixes used in other countries that are registered with the CPR.
Gabi said that not all societies are members of CPR. Membership had not been requested or enforced. There is no control over a single society.
Niamh repeated that some European countries are using prefixes that are registered in Ireland. She wants every society to have access to the prefix list.
Dermot said that by operating the prefix system, the CPBS would be “tidying up”. If the names are all together, there would be no conflict.
Niamh wants to register the words so there is no duplication.
Christine asked about the French use of suffixes. The French National Studs registers ponies with the beginning letter matching the ‘year’ so that all ponies born in a certain year have the same first letter. The suffix is registered with the National Studs.
Niamh said that this registration of words would apply to prefixes and suffixes. She said that once a word is registered, it cannot be used in any part of a future name. For example, Cashel Girl excludes using the word Cashel for all other people.
Tom suggested that common words not be accepted.
It was suggested that Niamh circulate the current CPBS Rules for Prefix Registration.
This topic is complicated and must be discussed in future ICCPS meetings.
• Letter from Christine Mares about blood typing (France)
Christine submitted a letter from January 22, 2008 about parentage testing of ponies for registration and passports. She points out that you cannot “go back” for parentage testing forever. She wants rules for harmonization of registration to facilitate transfer of ponies between countries and breeders. She does not want countries to be distrustful of ponies from a foreign country. There had been confidence, in the past. Christine would like all countries to state when they began parentage testing. There should be a reference year when each country started. There should be a year of reference so that if there is a pony from after the date, then, have it parentage tested.
Madeleine agreed that there should be a ‘cut off date’.
Christine said that if the passport is not validated then the pony should not be entered into the stud book of the new country. She proposed that we go through the passport document this summer. A French Passport is validated when on page 3 at the bottom right, there is a stamp and signature of the National Studs.
Niamh said that on 27th of February there was a decision that all ponies coming into the CPBS stud book must be parentage tested after 2005. Now, a DNA sample is taken and stored in case there is a question. Christine proposes that for the French ponies who have arrived in Ireland with their passports not validated that a French veterinary (Dr. Vermoesen) comes to Ireland and have the concerned ponies gathered for one day, in one place, in order for him to make the graphic descriptions. Then, the passports will be sent to the National Studs in France for validation. Once this is done, then, the ponies are fully registered into the French CPS and can therefore be entered into the CPS abroad. The validated passports will be sent back to the owners fully stamped and signed by the National Studs.
Christine would like a letter confirming 2005 is the date.
• AI availability worldwide – development of annual list of stallions from frozen semen Representing New Zealand, Anne made the point that the biosecurity standards in New Zealand were very high. The New Zealand Society requested stallion owners to get their stallion’s semen frozen to comply with those standards.
Sarah said that some countries have requirements that make the process more expensive. There are different veterinary tests and rules. Internet web sites specify the rules.
Susan had received a list of stallions offering frozen semen from Sweden, British Connemara Pony Society, and Netherlands.
More work needs to be done on this topic.
• Promotion of the Connemara Pony – worldwide/global approach
Susanne Lehmann demonstrated the DVD slideshow that she prepared of photos that she and her husband have taken over the years. This DVD repeats every 10 minutes 760 photos of excellent quality and large size giving a general impression of the Connemara Pony. There is no music. The ICCPS logo appears, sometimes, otherwise there is no printed material – just photos of Connemaras at various stages of life and athletic endeavors (including the European Championships 2007), plus some Irish landscape photos. Susanne’s goal was to show “what you can do with the animal” rather than a simple promotion of the pony. Anne queried the child protection issue as some of the photographs were of children riding ponies.
Lene said that she had no problem with the use of Irish ponies. She thought the DVD was gorgeous.
Tuula said that if we have other people’s photos, we need permission to publish them. These photos are private property of Susanne Lehmann and she is allowing us to use her photos.
Susanne said that she could provide DVDs to all societies for use in Expos, etc for Euros 800.
Tuula said that she is happy to pay Susanne when she presents a bill. Everyone was thrilled with this DVD! The ICCPS delegates discussed how to increase visibility of the Connemara Pony.
Tom felt we should support the web sites that are already in existence. There was discussion of improving and upgrading the ICCPS web site.
Chris suggested that each society’s web site should link to all other countries and the ICCPS web site.
People would like to see the ICCPS web site with photos that can change.
Tuula wondered if the AnCapaillin was “only Irish or something bigger”.
Tom said that it takes a year to research and publish AnCapaillin. It was not thought to be a good idea to have a second An Capaillin. Tom thought it might be detrimental to the other English speaking Connemara publications.
Oda Münch-Bronk suggested that information should be collected every month for a letter or short report every month or six weeks.
Tuula said that there is always something happening in the UK or Ireland. It would be good to include news from around the world.
Susanne said that there are international shows which should be on a “Calendar of Shows” so that if someone is going to be in France or the USA, they will know about the national and international competitions.
Lene said that societies should post results of their shows, inspection and riding competitions. At last year’s meeting, Tom suggested that every country should send results, so the Connemara Pony could be promoted all over the world. Only Denmark has sent a report with results – that is very disappointing. She wanted to have international news on the ICCPS web site.
Someone needs to collect and write information. We need to hear from other countries.
Anne suggested that John Tennant be asked if he is willing to co-ordinate promotion and everyone that this was very good idea.
Tuula suggested that there be a subcommittee of a select group who can push other countries to report the information.
Anne said that John Tennant can “push it”!
Madeleine said that not all people are English speaking so articles and meeting minutes should be written in short sentences – “not too polite” – “military”.
The Executive Board needs to discuss this.
• New rules for ICCPS groups – status of development – CPBS/Dermot to respond to the situation raised in ICCPS Minutes 2006,
Niamh said that the only rule change for the CPBS in 2008: Colts will be presented at 3 years of age and older. Also, the person presenting the pony for inspection cannot alter flesh marks or hoof colors.
Niamh will send via email the CPBS 2008 Rules for Registration.
Madeleine would like to see the date of the letter from the Ministry approving the 2008 CPBS Rules.
• Colt Inspections – esp. Veterinary Examination (BCPS) Vet certificate to cover all ICCPS Societies
Sarah felt that the vet report was a very important part of the Colt Inspection. She said that “once a problem gets in, it is hard to get it out”. She felt that there should be harmonization of the requirements so that an animal that is exported is conformed to a standard.
Anne said that the BCPS has a Stage 5, standard vetting.
Madeleine said that is would be easy to follow a form which has checks of ‘yes’ or ‘no’. She said that if a vetting is mandatory for mares or stallions, then, there should be a form. She would like one by January 2009. She said that the Shetlands had a form.
Anne said that NZ wants a vet form, too.
Niamh said that in Ireland, Philip McManus has a vetting for the stallions, only.
Dermot said that the EU rules allow every animal to breed.
Tom agrees that there should be harmonization. He felt the Parent Society should give the countries information so they know what kind of examination is done.
Vermund said that a rotated testicle is not allowed. Let this be a start for uniform rules with a reason for a license or not a license. He felt that there should be harmonization. The inspectors should be trained, together. In the future, he would like to see a breeding index for each stallion or mare.
Gabi wanted to have an assessment of the rules for the vet testing. Several years ago there was an overview of all societies.
Anne felt that there should be a mandatory minimum for vetting.
Lene wanted to know if mares were “vetted at home”.
Niamh said that stallions are the only ones checked by a vetting. The mares are measured and markings are checked.
Many people want a uniform standard.
• Incest Rules (Finland) matter unresolved from Minutes 2007
Now that Ireland has adopted its Rules, Tuula said there is nothing about incest of father/daughter, mother/son, etc. If the sire and dam are 1⁄2 siblings, how do we treat this? Does the pony go into Class 3? How do we proceed?
Anne said that under the BCPS rules, they go into Class 3.
Madeleine said that if the pony is alright, then, it does not matter.
Tuula said that the pony can
- 1.) stay in Class 3 – if use an outcross stallion, it is OK
- 2.) inspect and put into Class 2
- 3.) inspect and if good, place into Class 1
If the pony has faults that the vet can see, then, turn down
Dermot says that the EU says the pony is “in”. He says that Madeleine is right. The pony cannot be Class 2 with restrictions. He said that we are trying to create rules for a small problem. He wants to monitor the situation. He hopes that education seminars, the database and the inbreeding coefficient will help identify the cl0se relationship. Dermot asked: “what is the extent of the problem?”
Tuula said there is a mare in Finland that was bred in Holland. Both parents are by the same stallion. This is a retired show jumping mare. Where to put the foal?
Madeleine said that she may gain genes for the good! If it is a positive animal, then, “thank heaven”!
Tuula says that it sounds like we are to forget the old incest rules.
Lene said that the CPBS asked us to put in the Incest Rules. So, we did, and now, she can go home and tell the Danish members that the Incest Rules are out.
Dermot said that the BCPS put it in.
Tuula said that maybe this is another time where maybe we have to forget the rules!
• Discussion of clinics for future development of Inspectors and Judges – discussed in Minutes 2007, page 4 (Norway)
Vermund said that it is very important to train Inspectors and Judges, together, so Judges work from the same principles with the same weight on the same things. We all agree that we want more bone and type. In practice, we need to maintain the breed standard or we will develop several different types of Connemara Pony. Countries such as Sweden and Germany come from “umbrella” organizations. There are not a lot of training opportunities in Norway. He would like to join clinics in Ireland and other countries. He would like inspectors to give figures in characteristics of a Connemara Pony.
Tom said that there will be a seminar on Saturday for 40 people with 10 ponies, including Des Barnwell, Padraic Hynes and Lib Petch. There will be a chance to talk about the ponies; use a judging sheet and rate as a show class. The same clinic might be repeated in August 2008.
Niamh said the bus leaves at 8:30 for the clinic in Claregalway. There will be lunch on the way back to Clifden.
Tuula said that Finland had clinics, almost every year. Tom came to Finland to talk with people. It was suggested that clinics in English could include invited international people to talk with colleagues from other countries. The participants are responsible for their travel and expenses.
Dermot said that there had been an agreement with France for a big clinic, but a small one happened, instead. He felt that this was a missed opportunity.
Lene said that Mrs. Petch is invited to give a seminar in Denmark. She is asked to judge 6 ponies and, then, think out loud. They want Mrs. Petch to tell her thoughts about each pony and why she placed them in that order.
Vermund said that he was very pleased about the opportunity of the clinic on Saturday.
• Preparation and cost of the 2007 DVD PowerPoint presentation (ACPS)
Last year, the ICCPS contributed Euros 2,000 to the production. The CPBS paid euros 600.
Chris felt that the price to the societies was too high. At Euros 20 per DVD, the price is too high, by the time postage is added.
Anne felt that if the ICCPS paid for the production, that they should get copies at cost, not retail.
Niamh said that she would order 200 copies with 100 for the CPBS and 100 for the societies.
If a society paid euros 20 in 2007, then, it should be made fair. • Other Matters
More than one society within a country:
Dermot reported that Martin Haller wanted to start another society in Austria.
Andrea said Martin has 2 Connemara ponies in “his society”. The group broke off and has authorization from the Horse & Pony Breeds of Austria.
Tom said that through our Constitution, we can only approve one organization from each country.
Dermot said that the splitting off is “unfortunate”.
Tom felt that we should continue with the AGM on the Tuesday before the Clifden Pony Show focusing on Colt Inspection (esp. Vet exam), Prefix Usage, and Clinics for the future development of Inspectors and Judges.
Some people said that they cannot come twice a year.
Madeleine thought that we should have a Technical Meeting in March and the AGM in August.
Dermot said that we had had an effective meeting, years ago, when we had a 2 day technical meeting in Dublin.
The consensus was to meet on Wednesday, 20th August 2008 from 9-11:00 AM
Tuula thanked everyone for the day, especially Dermot for his expertise in the past. Representing the ICCPS, she said that we all looked forward to the help he has promised in the future. She hopes that the ICCPS will get the support from each country, including the Parent Society.
Adjourn 3:55 PM