ICCPS Minutes March 2008

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International Committee of Connemara Pony Societies Annual Meeting & Technical/General Meeting
27 March, 2008
Station House Hotel, Clifden, Co. Galway, Ireland

Dermot Power, sitting in for John Tennant (Australia), Chair, called the Annual Meeting of the ICCPS to order at 9:10AM in the Station House Hotel, Clifden, Co. Galway, Ireland. The following Delegates/Representatives attended: Sue Clarke (Australia), Andrea Hochfellner (Austria), Anne Storme (Belgium), Anne Harries (British CPS and New Zealand), Chris Knox (Canada), Lene Nielsen (Denmark), Tuula Pyoria (Finland), Joop de Jong (Holland), Tom MacLochlainn (Ireland), Vermund Lyngstad (Norway), Madeleine Beckman (Sweden), Gabriele Kappeler (Switzerland), Chris Knox (USA), Padraic Heanue (Ireland), Treasurer, and Susan McConnell (USA), Secretariat.

Others in the room: Cherry Caddy (BCPS), Jackie Webb (BCPS), Christine Mares (France), Susanne Lehmann (Germany), Oda Muench (Switzerland), Lotta Sjoberg (Sweden), Ragnhild Aaboe (Norway), Seamus Hynes (Ireland), Kathy Lucas (USA), Brenda Kiniyalocts (USA), Joan Webster (USA), Karen Vicencio (Ireland/USA), Marynell Eyles (USA)

Call to Order and Welcome: Since the ICCPS Chair, John Tennant, could not come to Ireland from Australia, Vice Chair, Dermot Power welcomed everyone to the 10th Annual Meeting of the International Committee of Connemara Pony Societies. Dermot spoke with John the day before. John wished everyone well. Dermot said that John was a great Ambassador of the Connemara Pony; served well as the Chair of the ICCPS; and, kept us on our toes. Unfortunately, John cannot continue to make the journey from Australia to Ireland. On behalf of all the ICCPS Societies, Dermot wanted to thank John for serving as Chair for so many years.

Dermot called on Tom MacLochlainn, President of the CPBS, to say a few words. Tom welcomed everyone to Clifden on a fine spring day. He hoped we would have as good weather for the weekend as last year. As he is retiring as President of the CPBS, Tom said that he was lucky enough to travel around the world to see Connemara Ponies, even as far away as Australia and New Zealand. He said we talked a lot about “harmonization”, but he wanted to celebrate the “differences”, too. He saw in Denmark that the Inspection system tabulates the results and reads them out as well as publishes them in the Stud Book so that it would be a learning experience. In New Zealand talk, Tom said that he saw the smallest cohort of ponies as in any country, with some exquisite ponies under 14 hands. In that culture, they cross with the TB to get the size they want, but in Ireland, they breed the “big to the big”. He stressed that we need to control height. Tom commented on the brochure that was provided from Australia. Tom hoped that the expertise from the Charles Sturt University in Wagga would be able to help the Connemara Pony. Tom noted that in America, there were Connemara Ponies in all colors – bays, browns, black, dun, roans and an odd grey! He said they are not afraid of the BEC. Tom said that every country has something to share. He felt that if we “listen and learn”, every country can make a huge contribution. Tom thanked Niamh, Carol and Emer for their tremendous work towards this weekend. And, a special thanks to John Tennant, as a friend and father figure – a colossus in the ICCPS movement.

  • Apologies for Absence: Anne Harries represented the British Connemara Pony Society as well as New Zealand. Chris Knox represented the American Connemara Pony Society as well as the Canadian Connemara Pony Society. Klaus Meisner sent his apologies by Fax, due to illness. No representative from France attended the meeting.
  • Adoption of Minutes from the last Annual Meeting of 14th August, 2007 (previously circulated): A motion was made by Lene Nielsen(Denmark) and seconded by Anne Harries (British) to approve the Minute. The motion passed.
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  • Presentation of the President’s Annual Report: Dermot Power read from the President’s Annual Report 2007-2008 that had been previously circulated. Dermot said that John wrote a very comprehensive report reflecting the past 6 years and pointing forward for the promotion of the Connemara Pony, worldwide, as well as the cooperation of the Sister Societies.Treasurer’s Report Annual Accounts for 2007-2008: Padraic Heanue circulated a list of Societies that had paid and/or not paid. He apologized for any errors, but said that there seems to be a problem with checks being posted to the account. He suggested that each Society send him an email at the same time that they send money so he can cross check. The balance as of 27th March, 2008 is 5358.74 Euros.The Annual Membership fee is 65 Euros for all Societies except the larger ones – France, Great Britain, Ireland and USA. The larger Societies pay 130 Euros, annually.
    The calendar year is the fiscal year.
  • Collection of each ICCPS Society Annual Report (Susan McConnell, Secretary)
    Susan thanked every Society for their attention to completing their report and circulating it via email to all other Societies. Niamh promises to circulate the CPBS report, soon.
    Dermot asked a general “update” question about Parentage Testing of all Connemara Ponies in all countries. Dermot plans to create a form and send it around to all Societies.
  • Declaration of Elections for Office Bearers – France and Australia step down:
    Lene Neilsen nominated Tuula Pyoria (Finland) and Anne Harries (Britain) seconded the nomination. Since no one had heard from Alain deBilly, no one knew whether he wished to continue.
    Anne Harries nominated Madeleine Beckman (Sweden) and Sue Clarke (Australia) seconded this nomination.
    Dermot Power noted that there were no further nominations so it was deemed that Finland and Sweden were elected to the executive Board
    This concluded the business of the AGM and the Executive Board met to elect the ICCPS Officers:
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A motion was made

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by Dermot Power (Ireland) and seconded by Lene Nielsen (Denmark) to accept the

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President’s Annual Report, as written.

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A motion was made by Chris Knox (ACPS) and seconded by Lene Nielsen (Denmark) to accept the Treasurer’s Report.

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Officers for 2008:

Chair
Vice-Chair
Hon. Treasurer Acting Treasurer Hon. Secretary Secretariat

At Large:

Tuula Pyoria (Finland)
Tom MacLochlainn (Ireland) Chris Knox (USA)
Padraic Heanue (Ireland) Lene Nielsen (Denmark) Susan McConnell (USA)

Anne Harries (Britain) Madeleine Beckman (Sweden)

• Presentation of Gifts of Appreciation for John Tennant, past Chair for ICCPS

  1. Tom MacLochlainn presented a large oil painting of John’s favorite Connemara stallion to Sue Clarke to carry back to Australia as a token of appreciation for his years of service to the ConnemaraPony. All the Societies expressed their gratitude for John’s dedication.
  2. Susan presented an award certificate which was signed by the ICCPS Delegates in the meeting. Thecertificate read: In recognition of valuable contributions, steadfast loyalty, valiant, patient leadership, perseverance, endurance, and years of unselfish service to the Connemara Pony – worldwide.
  3. Sue Clarke spoke about the partnership between C.S.U. at Wagga and the Australian Connemara Pony Society. She distributed the leaflet “Working Together” and told the meeting that the launch had been on St. Patrick’s Day by the Irish Minister for transport who was visiting Australia. The Connemaras at CSU will be ideal for the veterinary students. Sue said that the ACPS would hold one meeting each year at CSU. Bill Concannon has donated a three year old filly. Tom MacLochlainn presented Sue with a box of books, including stud books, etc. which were a gift to the library at CSU from the CPBS.

• AI availability worldwide – development of annual list of stallions from frozen semen Tom said that all Societies needed the option of genetic diversity. He felt that the use of frozen semen would be instrumental to all countries.
Susan had previously circulated the stallion information provided by Sweden, Netherlands and the British Connemara Pony Society. Niamh promises to provide a list of the stallions in Ireland that have frozen semen.

ICCPS TECHNICAL/ GENERAL MEETING – convened at 10:45
The newly elected ICCPS Chair, Tuula Pyoria opens the meeting by thanking everyone for their confidence in her leadership. She said that she may not be as good as John Tennant, but she wanted everyone to remember why we are here – for the love of the Connemara Pony.

• New Rules for ICCPS Groups – status of development – CPBS/Dermot to respond to situation raised in ICCPS Minutes 2006, page 4

In reference to the Rules discussed in 2006 (seen below): Class #1 – Colts/Fillies minimum age of 2 years

  1. Under 148 but over 128
  2. Pass visual
  3. Pass veterinary

Class #2 – Colts/Fillies minimum age 2 years

  1. Over 148
  2. fail visual

Class #3 – All foals born – animals not presented or fail vet inspection

Lene wanted to know how she can see why a pony was in Class 3. Was it rejected at Inspection or is it born there? It might be there by fate because it has never been shown or there could be something wrong with the pony.
Tuula asked that there be a mark on the Passport so a new Society can see if it is Class 3 due to never being shown (with birth number only) or in Class 3 due to failing the vet. It is possible to fail due to type, conformation or movement. What do we do with these stallions even if they pass the vet and are in Class 2? Niamh clarified that there is a date of Inspection on a pony’s passport and the resulting class stamped into the passport. She said that if the pony’s passport is not stamped, then it has not been presented for inspection. There is now a classification page in all CPBS Passports.

Anne pointed out that only ponies inspected in or after 2006 will be in Class 3.

Niamh said that it would not be possible to go back since there would have to be a full vetting for a colt. Tuula said that it is possible to fail due to movement.

Madeleine Beckman pointed out that this topic is linked to Item #5 on the Agenda: Colt Inspections – esp. Veterinary Examination – vet certificate to cover all Societies.

Susanne Lehmann said that there is a list of “diseases” that qualifies a pony for Class 3 – example overshot jaw. They are general defects in other breeds. If the animal suffers from these, he/she will be in Class 3. Dermot said that they rely on a veterinary examination, but there are differences from country to country. Tuula said we should get a list of defects from every country.

• Database Update Presentation by Alex O’Connor
Using his laptop connected to the internet and projected onto a screen, Alex presented the database format using the CPBS Stud Book information. He said that he learned how difficult it is to calculate in the coefficient for inbreeding. It takes approximately 5,000 calculations!
Everyone is inspired by Alex’s work with the various calculations that are able to be preformed in the site, such as height of Get of Sire.
The delegates requested that there be a new column for a comment(s) or reason(s) for a Grade 2 or 3 (height, movement, etc).
Christine Mares warned that we should be careful about the sort of information that is published. She suggested that we check to see if we can publish the vet reason (liability).
Gabi said that if it is Class 2 you can see if it is due to size, color in case it is not due to height (over or under).
Dermot said that he suggested that we publish what is “positive”.
Gabi said that we can conclude the problem.
Tuula said that if a colt fails the vet, it will be in Class 3.
Sue Clarke said that we should only publish positive results.
Lene wondered why it is a secret as to “why” a colt was rejected. At the Danish AGM, people want the failed stallions in the studbook, with description and marks. Denmark has no secrets.
Tuula said that Finland is very similar – publishing similar information as Denmark.
Susanne Lehmann said that she thinks there will be server problems. There are “high restrictions” on publishing information about animals. Any Society can submit what they want, but they should be aware that it should not be negative.

Madeleine said that it is important to know if a pony was presented or not, if it is in Class 3.
Niamh repeated that if a pony has been inspected that its date and class is noted. She said the countries need to tell IF a pony has been inspected.
Tuula said that we need to think of the reasons why a pony could fail. If we want the Connemara Pony to be better, we should be open. In Finland, people want to know – even the negative. Owners want to know.
Alex said anything can be on the web through the database. He repeated that the “elephant in the room” is the Coefficient of Inbreeding. He thought it was “straight forward”, but it is not. Alex mentioned Wright’s equation for coefficient of inbreeding as well as Hardiman technique that goes back 5 generations.
Anne Storme asked about 2 ponies with the same name. These exist.
Some of the questions and thoughts were:

  1. private to members, only?
  2. public or non-public – owners/breeders
  3. prefix search
  4. phone numbers – current owner should have the ability to change the information
  5. password allowed until suspended

Niamh said that updating for the CPBS Stud Book is difficult. Since there are about 150/week, it is not practical to update every 3 months. It would be better for the CPBS to update more frequently.
Alex said the yearly fee would be 1,00 Euros for maintenance + VAT 21%. This fee would cover insurance, security and any need to restore it.

Christine said that it should be clarified what is in the fee.

Alex said that he would outline the service and send it via email

Chris Knox asked about the “set-up” cost.
Alex said that he had a contract for 10,000 Euros which included the VAT of 21%. He said that it would be fewer than 8,000 Euros. He felt that the CPBS information was ready and would be put online, first. There would be a link on the web site that would link to the server.
Lene thanked Alex for all of his work.
Tuula said it was a marvelous start.

• Prefix Usage- prevent duplication worldwide (CPBS)
Niamh explained that she had been advised by an official in the Irish Ministry of Agriculture that the Central Prefix Register “would not stand up”. She told the Societies that previously people had been registering their prefixes with Central Prefix Registry in the UK, but not every Society was using them. In the future, the CPBS will receive payment and will register its own prefixes. They will not allow a word which occurs in any prefix or suffix to be used in any other prefix or suffix, nor may that word form any part of a pony’s name. She was made aware that Irish prefixes are being used in other countries. She wanted each Society to email all prefixes to avoid prefix duplication.
Gabi said that names in her Connemara Society have to be approved by the C.P.R.
Niamh said that the C.P.R cannot control the names since a lot of them are not registered. She said that the CPBS will control the names and the CPBS will not allow anyone in Ireland or in a Daughter Society to duplicate a name.
Chris said that she understands the problem, but she thinks there will be difficulties when one tries to register a name and float it between all the Societies to avoid duplication. She feels that we will have to “share” some words such as “Heather”.
Niamh said that “Caillin” (Colleen) is now a prefix.
Christine said that in France, they use a suffix that is registered on a voluntary basis with the French National Stud.
Apparently, recently, the name “Sparrow” has been registered as a suffix; therefore, the female line with the Sparrow name at the end should stop.
After heated, rapid discussion and collective disbelief about the removal of words from pony’s names, Madeleine suggested that a smaller group read and discuss the procedure.
Tuula said that there are long established prefixes that should not be duplicated or used in another country, but to restrict common words will cause problems. She warned that the Connemara ponies would have “poodle names”, if the CPBS restricts common words.
Marynell Eyles said that it will be very hard to know the words that are being reserved – flowers, birds, etc. it will be hard to keep the lines of communications open to check on every name/word.
Chris said that there should be a subcommittee for registration.
Christine said that many names are protected.
Niamh said “no” unless it is registered with the CPBS.
Tuula asked: Even if it is a long established name?
Niamh said that we need to work together and keep communicating.
Sarah asked if someone can register a pony without a prefix? For example, if she bred a pony that was not a good representative of her prefix, could she register it without the Spinaway prefix
Niamh said: yes. They do not have to use their prefix.

Tuula thought that it should be used so that it cannot be ignored. Either a breeder has and uses a prefix for every animal he/she breeds or does not have a prefix.
Gabi said that it will be difficult to look up or make contact every day. She does not see the point to invent something that is already there.

Gabi said that it will be difficult to look up and check names, daily. She did not see the point of inventing something new when there is already something there.
Niamh said that she has seen prefixes used in other countries that are registered with the CPR.
Gabi said that not all societies are members of CPR. Membership had not been requested or enforced. There is no control over a single society.

Niamh repeated that some European countries are using prefixes that are registered in Ireland. She wants every society to have access to the prefix list.
Dermot said that by operating the prefix system, the CPBS would be “tidying up”. If the names are all together, there would be no conflict.

Niamh wants to register the words so there is no duplication.
Christine asked about the French use of suffixes. The French National Studs registers ponies with the beginning letter matching the ‘year’ so that all ponies born in a certain year have the same first letter. The suffix is registered with the National Studs.
Niamh said that this registration of words would apply to prefixes and suffixes. She said that once a word is registered, it cannot be used in any part of a future name. For example, Cashel Girl excludes using the word Cashel for all other people.
Tom suggested that common words not be accepted.
It was suggested that Niamh circulate the current CPBS Rules for Prefix Registration.
This topic is complicated and must be discussed in future ICCPS meetings.

• Letter from Christine Mares about blood typing (France)
Christine submitted a letter from January 22, 2008 about parentage testing of ponies for registration and passports. She points out that you cannot “go back” for parentage testing forever. She wants rules for harmonization of registration to facilitate transfer of ponies between countries and breeders. She does not want countries to be distrustful of ponies from a foreign country. There had been confidence, in the past. Christine would like all countries to state when they began parentage testing. There should be a reference year when each country started. There should be a year of reference so that if there is a pony from after the date, then, have it parentage tested.
Madeleine agreed that there should be a ‘cut off date’.
Christine said that if the passport is not validated then the pony should not be entered into the stud book of the new country. She proposed that we go through the passport document this summer. A French Passport is validated when on page 3 at the bottom right, there is a stamp and signature of the National Studs.
Niamh said that on 27th of February there was a decision that all ponies coming into the CPBS stud book must be parentage tested after 2005. Now, a DNA sample is taken and stored in case there is a question. Christine proposes that for the French ponies who have arrived in Ireland with their passports not validated that a French veterinary (Dr. Vermoesen) comes to Ireland and have the concerned ponies gathered for one day, in one place, in order for him to make the graphic descriptions. Then, the passports will be sent to the National Studs in France for validation. Once this is done, then, the ponies are fully registered into the French CPS and can therefore be entered into the CPS abroad. The validated passports will be sent back to the owners fully stamped and signed by the National Studs.
Christine would like a letter confirming 2005 is the date.

• AI availability worldwide – development of annual list of stallions from frozen semen Representing New Zealand, Anne made the point that the biosecurity standards in New Zealand were very high. The New Zealand Society requested stallion owners to get their stallion’s semen frozen to comply with those standards.

Sarah said that some countries have requirements that make the process more expensive. There are different veterinary tests and rules. Internet web sites specify the rules.
Susan had received a list of stallions offering frozen semen from Sweden, British Connemara Pony Society, and Netherlands.

More work needs to be done on this topic.

• Promotion of the Connemara Pony – worldwide/global approach
Susanne Lehmann demonstrated the DVD slideshow that she prepared of photos that she and her husband have taken over the years. This DVD repeats every 10 minutes 760 photos of excellent quality and large size giving a general impression of the Connemara Pony. There is no music. The ICCPS logo appears, sometimes, otherwise there is no printed material – just photos of Connemaras at various stages of life and athletic endeavors (including the European Championships 2007), plus some Irish landscape photos. Susanne’s goal

was to show “what you can do with the animal” rather than a simple promotion of the pony. Anne queried the child protection issue as some of the photographs were of children riding ponies.
Lene said that she had no problem with the use of Irish ponies. She thought the DVD was gorgeous.
Tuula said that if we have other people’s photos, we need permission to publish them. These photos are private property of Susanne Lehmann and she is allowing us to use her photos.

Susanne said that she could provide DVDs to all societies for use in Expos, etc for Euros 800.

Tuula said that she is happy to pay Susanne when she presents a bill. Everyone was thrilled with this DVD! The ICCPS delegates discussed how to increase visibility of the Connemara Pony.
Tom felt we should support the web sites that are already in existence. There was discussion of improving and upgrading the ICCPS web site.

Chris suggested that each society’s web site should link to all other countries and the ICCPS web site.
People would like to see the ICCPS web site with photos that can change.
Tuula wondered if the AnCapaillin was “only Irish or something bigger”.
Tom said that it takes a year to research and publish AnCapaillin. It was not thought to be a good idea to have a second An Capaillin. Tom thought it might be detrimental to the other English speaking Connemara publications.

Oda Münch-Bronk suggested that information should be collected every month for a letter or short report every month or six weeks.
Tuula said that there is always something happening in the UK or Ireland. It would be good to include news from around the world.

Susanne said that there are international shows which should be on a “Calendar of Shows” so that if someone is going to be in France or the USA, they will know about the national and international competitions.
Lene said that societies should post results of their shows, inspection and riding competitions. At last year’s meeting, Tom suggested that every country should send results, so the Connemara Pony could be promoted all over the world. Only Denmark has sent a report with results – that is very disappointing. She wanted to have international news on the ICCPS web site.

Someone needs to collect and write information. We need to hear from other countries.
Anne suggested that John Tennant be asked if he is willing to co-ordinate promotion and everyone that this was very good idea.
Tuula suggested that there be a subcommittee of a select group who can push other countries to report the information.
Anne said that John Tennant can “push it”!
Madeleine said that not all people are English speaking so articles and meeting minutes should be written in short sentences – “not too polite” – “military”.
The Executive Board needs to discuss this.

• New rules for ICCPS groups – status of development – CPBS/Dermot to respond to the situation raised in ICCPS Minutes 2006, page 4

Niamh said that the only rule change for the CPBS in 2008: Colts will be presented at 3 years of age and older. Also, the person presenting the pony for inspection cannot alter flesh marks or hoof colors.
Niamh will send via email the CPBS 2008 Rules for Registration.
Madeleine would like to see the date of the letter from the Ministry approving the 2008 CPBS Rules.

• Colt Inspections – esp. Veterinary Examination (BCPS) Vet certificate to cover all ICCPS Societies

Sarah felt that the vet report was a very important part of the Colt Inspection. She said that “once a problem gets in, it is hard to get it out”. She felt that there should be harmonization of the requirements so that an animal that is exported is conformed to a standard.
Anne said that the BCPS has a Stage 5, standard vetting.

Madeleine said that is would be easy to follow a form which has checks of ‘yes’ or ‘no’. She said that if a vetting is mandatory for mares or stallions, then, there should be a form. She would like one by January 2009. She said that the Shetlands had a form.
Anne said that NZ wants a vet form, too.

Niamh said that in Ireland, Philip McManus has a vetting for the stallions, only.
Dermot said that the EU rules allow every animal to breed.
Tom agrees that there should be harmonization. He felt the Parent Society should give the countries information so they know what kind of examination is done.
Vermund said that a rotated testicle is not allowed. Let this be a start for uniform rules with a reason for a license or not a license. He felt that there should be harmonization. The inspectors should be trained, together. In the future, he would like to see a breeding index for each stallion or mare.

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A motion was made by Chris Knox (ACPS) and seconded by Anne Harries (British) to

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approve pay Susanne Lehmann euros 800 for the DVD. The motion passed.

Gabi wanted to have an assessment of the rules for the vet testing. Several years ago there was an overview of all societies.
Anne felt that there should be a mandatory minimum for vetting.
Lene wanted to know if mares were “vetted at home”.

Niamh said that stallions are the only ones checked by a vetting. The mares are measured and markings are checked.
Many people want a uniform standard.

• Incest Rules (Finland) matter unresolved from Minutes 2007
Now that Ireland has adopted its Rules, Tuula said there is nothing about incest of father/daughter, mother/son, etc. If the sire and dam are 1⁄2 siblings, how do we treat this? Does the pony go into Class 3? How do we proceed?
Anne said that under the BCPS rules, they go into Class 3.
Madeleine said that if the pony is alright, then, it does not matter.
Tuula said that the pony can

  1. 1.)  stay in Class 3 – if use an outcross stallion, it is OK
  2. 2.)  inspect and put into Class 2
  3. 3.)  inspect and if good, place into Class 1

If the pony has faults that the vet can see, then, turn down
Dermot says that the EU says the pony is “in”. He says that Madeleine is right. The pony cannot be Class 2 with restrictions. He said that we are trying to create rules for a small problem. He wants to monitor the situation. He hopes that education seminars, the database and the inbreeding coefficient will help identify the cl0se relationship. Dermot asked: “what is the extent of the problem?”
Tuula said there is a mare in Finland that was bred in Holland. Both parents are by the same stallion. This is a retired show jumping mare. Where to put the foal?
Madeleine said that she may gain genes for the good! If it is a positive animal, then, “thank heaven”!
Tuula says that it sounds like we are to forget the old incest rules.
Lene said that the CPBS asked us to put in the Incest Rules. So, we did, and now, she can go home and tell the Danish members that the Incest Rules are out.
Dermot said that the BCPS put it in.
Tuula said that maybe this is another time where maybe we have to forget the rules!

• Discussion of clinics for future development of Inspectors and Judges – discussed in Minutes 2007, page 4 (Norway)

Vermund said that it is very important to train Inspectors and Judges, together, so Judges work from the same principles with the same weight on the same things. We all agree that we want more bone and type. In practice, we need to maintain the breed standard or we will develop several different types of Connemara Pony. Countries such as Sweden and Germany come from “umbrella” organizations. There are not a lot of training opportunities in Norway. He would like to join clinics in Ireland and other countries. He would like inspectors to give figures in characteristics of a Connemara Pony.

Tom said that there will be a seminar on Saturday for 40 people with 10 ponies, including Des Barnwell, Padraic Hynes and Lib Petch. There will be a chance to talk about the ponies; use a judging sheet and rate as a show class. The same clinic might be repeated in August 2008.
Niamh said the bus leaves at 8:30 for the clinic in Claregalway. There will be lunch on the way back to Clifden.

Tuula said that Finland had clinics, almost every year. Tom came to Finland to talk with people. It was suggested that clinics in English could include invited international people to talk with colleagues from other countries. The participants are responsible for their travel and expenses.
Dermot said that there had been an agreement with France for a big clinic, but a small one happened, instead. He felt that this was a missed opportunity.

Lene said that Mrs. Petch is invited to give a seminar in Denmark. She is asked to judge 6 ponies and, then, think out loud. They want Mrs. Petch to tell her thoughts about each pony and why she placed them in that order.
Vermund said that he was very pleased about the opportunity of the clinic on Saturday.

• Preparation and cost of the 2007 DVD PowerPoint presentation (ACPS)
Last year, the ICCPS contributed Euros 2,000 to the production. The CPBS paid euros 600.
Chris felt that the price to the societies was too high. At Euros 20 per DVD, the price is too high, by the time postage is added.
Anne felt that if the ICCPS paid for the production, that they should get copies at cost, not retail.
Niamh said that she would order 200 copies with 100 for the CPBS and 100 for the societies.

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A motion was made by Chris Knox (ACPS) and seconded by Vermund Lyngstad (Norway) to approve charge the Societies only euros 10 per copy since the ICCPS paid for the copies. The

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motion passed.

If a society paid euros 20 in 2007, then, it should be made fair. • Other Matters

More than one society within a country:
Dermot reported that Martin Haller wanted to start another society in Austria.
Andrea said Martin has 2 Connemara ponies in “his society”. The group broke off and has authorization from the Horse & Pony Breeds of Austria.

Tom said that through our Constitution, we can only approve one organization from each country.
Dermot said that the splitting off is “unfortunate”.

Next meeting:
Tom felt that we should continue with the AGM on the Tuesday before the Clifden Pony Show focusing on Colt Inspection (esp. Vet exam), Prefix Usage, and Clinics for the future development of Inspectors and Judges.
Some people said that they cannot come twice a year.
Madeleine thought that we should have a Technical Meeting in March and the AGM in August.
Dermot said that we had had an effective meeting, years ago, when we had a 2 day technical meeting in Dublin.
The consensus was to meet on Wednesday, 20th August 2008 from 9-11:00 AM
Tuula thanked everyone for the day, especially Dermot for his expertise in the past. Representing the ICCPS, she said that we all looked forward to the help he has promised in the future. She hopes that the ICCPS will get the support from each country, including the Parent Society.
Adjourn 3:55PM